Pnyin - Is it easy to go to china and get work for a few months? -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China
Is it easy to go to china and get work for a few months?
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Rob501st -

Hi. I was a member of this site about a year ago and I was lookin to move to china permanently.
But I've given up on that
I want to go to Shanghia and work and live for a few months. I do not have any degrees or high end
skills. Is it easy (or even possible) to go to china for a few months and work in an unskilled
job. And is there much unskilled work for foriegners????

Also how cheap can u get apartments for in Shanghia? (I mean cheap but decent )



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Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 3 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: zhuangzi

Forum: Speaking and Listening 2nd March 2005, 10:16 PM

Replies: 20

Hardest sound to pronounce?

Views: 6,838

Posted By zhuangzi


Ha ha! Ri is NOT the same as the S in...

Ha ha!

Ri is NOT the same as the S in pleasure.

Many Chinese cannot pronounce the S in pleasure or French Js.

"J'taime," for example. A nice, soft J.

The S in pleasure is a voiced SH. Just say SH...



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Chinese Mandarin - Which language is the hardest (for a native Chinese speaker) or an English speaker -

> Extras > Other cultures and language
Which language is the hardest (for a native Chinese speaker) or an English speaker
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View Poll Results: Which language is the hardest for you or in general
English 0 0%
French (français) 1 5.56%
German (Deutsch) 0 0%
Russian (русский) 3 16.67%
Mandarin (汉语 / 漢語) 9 50.00%
Japanese (日本語) 3 16.67%
Korean (한국어) 4 22.22%
Arabic (عربي) 6 33.33%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll



Page 1 of 3 1 23 >






atitarev -

Hello,

I hope you don't mind taking part in this poll.

I learned and dabbled in a number of different languages and I won't include languages I have no
idea about (like Suahili, Hindi or American Indian languages). Please vote using your feeling,
experience or knoweldge.

My feeling is standard Mandarin (and other dialects) are almost complete opposites to standard
Arabic. (I saw a few Japanese forums for learners of Arabic but couldn't find many Chinese of
those, is there any interest to Arabic in China?).

(The vote is public - you can see who voted), multiple choices are allowed.

I voted for 2 most difficult ones in my opinion, although each language has easier aspects.

Regards,
Anatoli



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gato -

I don't quite understand the question. Hardest for an native Chinese OR a native English speaker?
Chinese wouldn't be hard for the former, and English wouldn't be hard for a native English
speaker. I don't see the logic for setting up the question this way.










atitarev -

If you're English native speaker but you insist that your native language is the hardest (your
objective opinion), you can still vote that way, I thought about such questions but allowed to
vote in any direction because I know such opinions exist and they have some merit.










flameproof -

I have some doubts that there are too many people out there who learned a large number of
languages and could say which one the hardest is.

I think you should have knowledge of at least 10 languages to take part in the poll.

And then the term "hard" is relative in itself. Hard to pronounce would mean many phonetic
elements which are not used in the native language. Or you can refer to writing, sentence
structure, etc, etc.... And last not least the impression of the learner itself.

In short, there is no answer.










atitarev -

You take it too seriously guys, I know it's all relative to your background and you need to know
other languages so you can compare but people have different life experiences and why not share
some ideas about diffculties learning a language? I haven't heard much from Chinese speakers,
especially about their experience learning a language other than English, well this is an
English-speaking forum, but still, there might be some around.

I want to meet more people who are interested in a few languages, meet some polyglots, hear what
they have to say, etc.










nephridium -

Actually, to have an objective survey about 'language difficulty' we'd have to use an ideal
"empty" model (akin to the 'black body' in physics). The results may not be very practical;
creating a relational graph between the languages might prove more useful.

How fast babies aquire certain language skills may be an indicator, but is affected by lots of
surrounding factors (such as education of parents, efficiency of school etc.).

Ok, enough of the preliminary blabla. In your list I'd go for Mandarin if you include the writing
system, seeing as even adults have considerable problems writing many words.

Korean and Japanese could be considered difficult because they don't show many similarities with
most other language one might know beforehand (whereas learning Chinese with a
Korean/Japanese/Vietnamese background will be easier). They are categorized as 'isolated
languages' or as the members of the 'altaic language family' (which is a very loosely-knit
family). The writing systems, especially the Korean Hangeul, are very intuitive and easy to learn,
which in turn facilitates easy learning and pronunciation of new vocabulary. Thankfully we
nowadays have Pinyin for Mandarin, even Chinese children in school use Pinyin to learn the
pronuncation of words.

Pronunciation can be a hurdle complicating the learning process. In the list I'd go for Japanese
as the easiest one to aquire followed by Mandarin and Korean. The other languages all used
alphabets for centuries and thus created a wider range of phonemes per syllable. This makes it
hard e.g. for grown up Chinese to learn the correct pronunciation of "tent" (often resulting in
"tente").

"Arabic" has a special role here, because similar to "Chinese" it encompasses a family of dialects
that historically had the same writing system (which didn't encode vowels), but have created
strong regional diffrerences (especially in terms of pronunciation). An Arab from Syria will have
a huge problem trying to comprehend an Egyptian talking.

Arabic is also special in that many of its words (as well as the numbers) have found their way
into languages like Spanish and even English (e.g. alcohol, guitar or coffee).

Within the alphabetical languages there are also differences between the difficulty of
orthography. E.g. in English you have words with the same spelling but different pronunciations
(e.g. route) and vice versa (e.g. 'plane' and 'plain'), whereas German for instance sports a less
sloppy use of the alphabet. On the other hand this makes English spelling bees more interesting
than German or Spanish ones. Another example I read about recently was the word 'polish', which
changes its meaning AND pronunciation when you capitalize it.

If we disregard the writing system Mandarin becomes one of the easier languages, the number of
phonemes and tones e.g. in Cantonese or Vietnamese is considerably higher. Solely looking at the
phonology I believe Russian is the most complex of the languages listed.

Argh, this reply has gotten longer than I thought.. Suffice it to say that this is a very complex
question and even if we use the "black body model" from above the answer varies from individual to
individual. Some may find aquiring grammar is easy, some may find it impossible to twist the
tongue in a way the native speaker does etc. In any case it's an interesting discussion. It leads
into equally interesting questions such as "How does the language we are thinking in affect our
thinking?" or "What effects does a certain language have on culture and philosophy?"










HashiriKata -

Nice post, nephridium!



Quote:

"How does the language we are thinking in affect our thinking?" or "What effects does a certain
language have on culture and philosophy?"

Difficult languages lead to difficult thinkings ?










gato -



Quote:

If we disregard the writing system Mandarin becomes one of the easier languages, the number of
phonemes and tones e.g. in Cantonese or Vietnamese is considerably higher. Solely looking at the
phonology I believe Russian is the most complex of the languages listed.

That's a big "IF." The writing system is a big part of the language. I assume that you mean
reading as well as writing. If you can't read the language you are trying to learn, it would be
very difficult to acquire new vocabulary in that language. You would have to learn everything
orally (or, let's say, by pinyin in the case of Chinese). While it is quite feasible to learn
enough survival Chinese without being able to read characters, I doubt that anyone would be able
to speak Mandarin like an educated adult (say with a high school-level vocabulary) without being
able to read Chinese characters.










wushijiao -

Nice post nephridium.

I think that all spoken languages are equally complex. Part of that reason is due to Steven
Pinker's The Langage Instinct. In that, he writes:

"Language is not a cultural artifact that we learn the way we learn the way we learn to tell time
or how the federal government works. Instead, it is a distinct piece of the biological makeup of
our brains. Language is a complex, specialized skill, which develops in the child spontaneously,
without conscious effort or formal instruction, is deployed without awareness of its underlying
logic, is qualitatively the same in every individual, and is distinct from more general abilities
to process information or behave intelligently.” He then goes on to term language an
“instinct”. And the term “instinct”, “….conveys the idea that people know how to talk
in more or less the sense that spiders know how to spin webs”

So, from that point of view, all languages created by children are equally complex because our
brains our equally complex.

If all spoken languages are equal, then what could make one language than another?

My personal opinion is that there are few important factors:

1) Difficulty of the writing system. Chinese, of course, is more difficult than the fairly
straight-forward systems like Korean or Spanish.

2) As far as speaking, the degree of standardization makes a big difference. For example, some
countries have hardcore diglossias in which people speak a standard at official events and places,
but then speak a colloquial dialect or language at informal gatherings. These two types of speech
are sometimes merged as well. Arabic and Chinese are examples of this. Other languages have
basically completed the process of standardization. It seems that Japanese and Koreans have
accents, it isn’t too common to completely not understand someone who is a native of those
languages. The case is fairly similar with English and Spanish.

Another notorious example of the spelling of a language being hard to learn is Tibetan. They do
have a phonetic alphabet, but it was fixed over 1000 years ago. English, in contrast, (I think)
started to become set around 500-350 years ago. So, it is hard to learn the contemporary Tibetan
spoken language and the writing system at the same time, while the Spanish alphabet almost always
reflects the sounds of spoken language.

3) As Gato mentioned, to what degree does the written language influence the spoken language is
another factor that is worth considering. Mandarin has the unique situation in which most of the
spoken language consists of two syllable words but the ancient written language mainly consisted
of single characters. Similarly, Chinese words can be abbreviated in ways that are not obvious. In
most European languages, to my knowledge, words are abbreviated with letters (USA, YMCA, NBA, UN,
UK…etc). While listening, you mat not know the specific abbreviation, but because it is in
letters, it’s not hard to realize that someone just said an abbreviation. With Chinese on the
other hand, you may not know what běidà, zhōnggōng, máoxuǎn, wéngě…etc. are
abbreviations when listening to them for the first time because they sound more like plausible
words than abbreviations using letters do.

My point is that the terseness of the Chinese written language can sometimes carry over into the
spoken language, especially when talking to people who read a lot. Of course, every language has a
written language that differs from the spoken language, but in Chinese that difference is
stretched pretty far.

So, in absolute terms, I think because of the character system, widespread diglossia, and the
influence of the characters system into the spoken language, there is a decent case to be made
that Chinese is one of the hardest languages in the world to learn. But even with that said, I
still don’t think it is that much different than other languages, just slightly harder. (By the
way, I’ve heard from some people feel that Japanese is harder because it contains the a
difficult grammar combined with the difficulty of kanji. I don’t know.)

In terms of “what is the hardest language” for an individual person, that mainly depends on
that person’s native language and what that person is good at. If you native language is Dutch,
it will be easier to learn German or English than it would be to learn French or Korean. Or to use
another example, for me, a native English speaker, it is easy to remember the Spanish word
universidad because it is similar to the English "university". Also, when learning Spanish, I had
a much more difficult time remembering the words that weren’t related to English, via Latin or
French

Also, some people like grammar. Some people are good at mimicking foreign sounds. Some people can
do both well. All languages require a combination of those skills, but some languages are more
grammar-intense than others, while others require more agile tongues. From that personal,
subjective point of view, it’s hard to measure what the hardest language is.










bhchao -

The grammar structure of Mandarin Chinese is similar to English, SVO, while the grammar structure
is SOV for Korean and Japanese. Therefore some people may find Mandarin easier to learn than
Korean and Japanese because its grammar pattern is "straightforward" and similar to English.

Japanese has the verb and adjective conjugations that Mandarin doesn't have.

Korean has the honorific verbal endings that are used to indicate politeness, casualness, or
bluntness. This social hierachy influence found in Korean is also lacking in Mandarin. Examples
like "sarang hae" and "sarang haeyo", or "odi ga" and "odi gayo", or "adasu" (I understand) and
"adasumnida". How you include these endings have a big impact on the level of politeness perceived
by the listener. There are also the difficulties in pronunciation regarding aspirated and
unaspirated sounds. Also dual counting systems are another issue; one set of numbers ("pure
Korean") for counting purposes; and another set of numbers ("Sino-Korean) borrowed from Chinese
numbers that are used for expressing years, months, days, and currency.

Mandarin has the complexity of the written language (no alphabet versus an alphabet writing system
for English and Hangul), the difficulties of Classical Chinese, and the tones. But once you get
past that, I think the rest is a breeze compared to Korean and Japanese when taking into account
grammar patterns, conjugations, and honorifics.












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Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 3 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: HashiriKata

Forum: Speaking and Listening 2nd February 2005, 11:48 PM

Replies: 43

Why Do You Learn Chinese?(ple help me with the survey)

Views: 6,910

Posted By HashiriKata


For me, learning Chinese opens up many things I...

For me, learning Chinese opens up many things I want to know about Far Eastern cultures, and I
think it also provides an alternative to what I've already been familiar with.


If you publish the...



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HSK - 不好意思: 怎么回答？ -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
不好意思: 怎么回答？
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doumeizhen -

不好意思。

It seems my group of friends is overly polite and are close to abusing "不好意思"， and if It
weren't for the fact that they tend to do it over the phone, I would pinch them. Instead, I need a
response that says: Don't be 不好意思。(or else...) Of course, I reailze its a cultural thing
to say 不好意思 and I promise I will only use any information given in the rarest of
occasions. So, with that in mind:

I was once told that you can say: 没有这个意思 or 没有什么意思。And then I was told
that this was wrong by someone else.

Any suggestions?



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Quest -

standard responses:
不好意思 excuse me. 什么事？yes?
不好意思 sorry. 没关系。that's ok.
不好意思 thank you. 没关系。no problem / 不要不好意思，应该的。it's my
pleasure/it's my job.










skylee -

I am not sure what you need. But usually the response is 沒關係, though this may not be what
you want.










Fun123 -

If you want to express "Don't be 不好意思", you can say 没什么不好意思的 or
别那么客气。










doumeizhen -

Yup! That's what I wanted to know. Basically for those people who are 太不好意思 and use the
saying all the time...

Thank you!










Fun123 -

You are welcome. I'm glad that you got what you wanted.












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Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: Lu

Forum: Speaking and Listening 17th August 2006, 09:15 PM

Replies: 38

dashan 大山, Igor(from taiwan) and any others who have disgustingly good chinese

Views: 8,318

Posted By Lu


You think so? I sometimes get complimented on my...

You think so? I sometimes get complimented on my English by Chinese, and I used to say 'well, I've
studied it since I was twelve', but then they answer 'me too!', and my English is much much
better....



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Study Chinese - 半角拉丁字母 -

> Extras > Other cultures and language
半角拉丁字母
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Ian_Lee -

Some Japanese-based websites, i.e. hotel, will ask customers to input their names by
半角拉丁字母 (half corner Latin alphabet) on their Chinese websites after making
reservation. Does anyone know what is 半角拉丁字母?



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zhwj -

This refers to the "byte-case" of the latin characters - full-width vs. half-width.

全角：ｆｕｌｌ－ｗｉｄｔｈ，　ｄｏｕｂｌｅ－ｂｙｔｅ　（ＤＢＣ　ｃ�
��ｓｅ）
半角:half-width, single-byte (SBC case).

I imagine some sites request half-width characters since their systems aren't equipped to
manipulate strings of double-byte latin text - to do comparisons and indexing and such.












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Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: Lugubert

Forum: Speaking and Listening 7th April 2006, 08:14 PM

Replies: 49

Tips for beginners?

Views: 5,746

Posted By Lugubert


Most Swedes able to name it call it the Viby...

Most Swedes able to name it call it the Viby "i". Liding"o "i" is he name in the Stockholm area.
Viby in county N"arke is rather rural.


I think you are confusing "sounds" and "possible...



Forum: Speaking and Listening 6th April 2006, 10:39 PM

Replies: 49

Tips for beginners?

Views: 5,746

Posted By Lugubert


Especially, half a century go, when I was young,...

Especially, half a century go, when I was young, and we learned grammar, and to get your
university entry exam, you would have studied at least three foreign languages.

Don't give up that easily!...



Forum: Speaking and Listening 26th February 2006, 07:45 PM

Replies: 49

Tips for beginners?

Views: 5,746

Posted By Lugubert


At our University, we learn mainly reading and...

At our University, we learn mainly reading and grammar. There are unfortunately no resources
available for conversation training. That suited me fine when beginning (I'm in 3rd semester now),
because...



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Chinese Studies - Web blogs -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Web blogs
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pattifranklin -

Does anyone know of any web blogs that would be a good source or reading practice? I'm sick of
reding the news all the times.



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dustymemory -

here are two blogs written by two American guy, both talking about learning Chinese and both are
in Chinese. hope it would be helpful:

喜爱学中文的美国老外
http://aradosh.spaces.live.com/

中文newbie
http://zhnewbie.spaces.live.com/










dingmuti -

but my chinese is still aweful and I'd hate to drag anyone else's down.

Danwei.org has a list of their favorite chinese blogs here:
http://www.danwei.org/media_and_adve..._of_favori.php

-dingmuti from 中文newbie










pattifranklin -

Dusty Memory and Dingmuti-

Thanks for the input. I'll go check them out.

Patti










Yuchi -

http://mysinablog.com/summary.php












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Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: wushijiao

Forum: Speaking and Listening 31st October 2005, 07:14 PM

Replies: 53

为什么很多的汉语学习者在这里不用汉语?

Views: 6,947

Posted By wushijiao


我们老外同志大部分都是学习者! 顶!　:mrgreen: 尽管我的写作和语法太差,...

我们老外同志大部分都是学习者!



顶!　:mrgreen:

尽管我的写作和语法太差,
我还是想有一个用汉语的小区可能让我们有一个机会练习我们的写作.

还有一个好事.
我觉得roddy同志的控制这个论坛有道理．　因为我偶尔参加别的论坛，　但��
�发现人家乱七八糟地贴文章．　他们不问自己：＂这张文章的最重要的句子
是什么？＂　所以，我看老半天，费劲，还不知道他们说是啥玩意儿！　　



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HSK - 愛得太遲 -

> Chinese Culture > Music
愛得太遲
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skylee -

I heard this song on the radio this morning. The lyrics are in fact a mix of Cantonese and
standard Chinese and not really what I would normally approve of but I do like what they try to
convey.

愛得太遲
歌手：古巨基　作曲：楊鎮邦　填詞：林夕

我過去　那死黨　 早晚共對
各也紮職以後　沒法暢聚
而終於相約到　但無言共對　疏淡如水
日夜做　見爸爸　剛好想呻
卻霎眼　看出他多了皺紋
而他的蒼老感　是從來未覺　太內疚擔心

最心痛是　愛得太遲
有些心意　不可等某個日子
盲目地發奮　忙忙忙其實自私
夢中也習慣　有壓力要我得志
最可怕是　愛需要及時　只差一秒　心聲都已變歷史
忙極亦放肆　見我愛見的相知
要抱要吻要怎麼也好　偏要推說等下一次

我也覺我體質彷似下降　看了症　得到是別要太忙
而影碟都掃光 　但從來未看　因有事趕
日夜做　儲的錢都應該夠　 到聖誕　正好講跟我白頭
誰知她開了口　未能挨下去　已恨我很久

錯失太易　愛得太遲　我怎想到　她忍不到那日子
盲目地發奮　忙忙忙從來未知　幸福會掠過　再也沒法說鍾意
愛一個字　也需要及時　只差一秒　心聲都已變歷史
為何未放肆 　見我愛見的相知
要抱要吻要怎麼也好　不要相信一切有下次

相擁我所愛又花幾多秒
這幾秒　能夠做到又有多少
未算少　足夠遺憾忘掉

多少抱憾　多少過路人　太懂估計　卻不懂愛錫自身
人人在發奮 　想起他朝都興奮
但今晚未過　你要過也很吸引
縱不信運　你不過是人　理想很遠　愛於咫尺卻在等
來日別操心　趁你有能力開心
世界有太多東西發生　不要等到天上俯瞰

Listen



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Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: Hero Doug

Forum: Speaking and Listening 31st January 2007, 12:14 PM

Replies: 61

most embarrassing moment while learning Chinese

Views: 17,258

Posted By Hero Doug


Re: most embarrassing moment while learning Chinese

Excellent thread, I know it's a bit old but I'm throwing mine in the ring.

Back in the day I was talking on Skype with someone and I had to answer the phone. I told the girl
I was talking to that I...



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HSK Exam - How to Draw Attention - Page 4 -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
How to Draw Attention
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Page 4 of 4 First < 23 4






梓橦山南麓 -

1.嘿(hei4),喂(wei4),哎(ai4),I usually use them when I want to draw my friends' attention,but to
straners or people much older than you it's not polite,so you can say “你好”after them to
make it more polite.
2.不好意思：I live in Shandong province and I usually use it.If you want to ask something you
can say"不好意思，请问……"or"你好,不好意思,(我想)请问一下……".They can
used to any people.I also say"那个，我想请问一下".Here "那(nei4 ,not na4)个" has no
meaning，it's not a 代词，just to draw people's attention.“对不起，请问……”is
also right.
3.“师傅”can be used when you talk to a taxi driver.I think it can be used to any kind of
bluecollar workers.
4.I usually use "劳驾" when someone is getting in my way and I want to let him or her give way
to me.You can say "劳驾（or 麻烦or对不起or不好意思），请让一下".



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QiHaoMing -

I heard and used 不好意思 a lot when I was in China. Of course I was in Kunming though and as
someone already mentioned earlier, it's a phrase that's more likely to be used as "excuse me" in
the south.

Aside from that though I would just use the typical: 请问。










coalminer -

I am a chinese and planning to write a line for your information/reference.

in general, 你好/您好 would be more applicable and widely used word when you want to start a
talk, draw an attention to a stranger or just say hello for a little kid or a young girl in the
street. it is formal and friendly. The situation to use this word is much likely to be similar to
that when some people unfamiliar each other meet in the morning in a narrow morning trail of some
hill parks. it is almost identical to Hey owing to the fact that both of them are simple words and
you can say them to any people no matter their different ages, sexes and professions an so on, but
你好 in Chinese is much formal than Hey. For example, Premier Wenjiabao is also say 你好 to
foreign guests when there is an official interview.

In the case above, I can not say 劳驾. it will be more appropriate to use 劳驾 only if someone
is in the way and you just want him to be noticed (similar to Excuse me???). personerly, I think
the work might have been out of fashion now. On the other hand, pay attention to your
pronunciation and accent "laojia", simply becuse it is almost identical to the 老家(also
"laojia") but meaning hometown.

be careful when you say 喂，嘿，哎. it is not formal word and might be a little impolite or
rude, especially the word 喂. The best occasion for you to use them is when someone happen to
lost his wallet in the street, and then you, behind of him, want to get him informed (if you do
not want to pick it up and hold it in private). On the other hand, there is no universal and fixed
criteria for the usages of Chinese characters. for example, I can use this words above to my good
friend with a much warm tone or mood "喂~/嘿~/哎~, so long no see" and subsequently I usuall
prefer to give him a big hug and shake hands.

师傅，服务员，阿姨 etc. have specific meaning, and thus are only suitable for specific
pepole. Therefore, they will be a little bit difficult to master the usage for some foreign people
who are too lazy to learn Chinese well. for details, pls look up for you dictionary.












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Search took 0.03 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: parasite

Forum: Speaking and Listening 6th January 2008, 12:51 PM

Replies: 62

Why do caucasians love English?

Views: 4,214

Posted By parasite


Re: Why do caucasians love English?

This is a really interesting thread and I'm glad I found it. Here -- all along I had been holding
a deep resent and loathing toward the Chinese because I thought it was only because of *their*...



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Search took 0.03 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: galitonwu

Forum: Speaking and Listening 26th May 2004, 04:22 PM

Replies: 63

Practicing Chinese with Chinese is impossible!!!

Views: 9,598

Posted By galitonwu


你最好把自己的想法直接告诉对方，我想大多数中国人都会配合你的。
当然，你也别光顾着自己联系中文，也...

你最好把自己的想法直接告诉对方，我想大多数中国人都会配合你的。

当然，你也别光顾着自己联系中文，也多给别人一些练习英语的机会。

互相帮助！



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Chinese language - Hangzhou to Jinhua -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China
Hangzhou to Jinhua
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Adrian -

Hello,

I wish to travel from Hangzhou to Jinhua and stay some days in Jinhua. I will be flying in from
Wuhan to Hangzhou around 1040pm at night.

I understand that you must take a train to Jinhua. Therefore, there seems to be a train
(1033/1036) that leave Hangzhou at 6:43am and arrives in Jinhua at 10:28am.

I will therefore spend 8 hours in Hangzhou.

http://treehouse.ofb.net/guide/sear...5%8D%8E&lang=en

Does anyone know what the tickets cost to be on the train? 1st class? soft seat? hard seat?

-----------------------------

I will have to fly back to Wuhan from Hangzhou a few days later. A plane leaves Hangzhou at 6:00pm
and arrives in Wuhan at around 7:20pm. This means I would have to catch a train from Jinhua to
Hangzhou that arrives in Hangzhou before 6:00pm. There is a train (5090) that leaves Jinhua at
11:06am and arrives in Hangzhou at 3:19pm. This would give me just over 2 hours to get from
Hangzhou Train Station to Hangzhou Airport.

http://treehouse.ofb.net/guide/sear...5%B7%9E&lang=en

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Does this sound like a good place? What advice do you have for me?

Thanks!



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showylily -

Have you set out to hangzhou and jinhua? But now I am in beijing. I don't know if you are a
bussinessman or traveller. So I don't know what advice you need. I hope you enjoy your travel












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Search took 0.21 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: koreth

Forum: Speaking and Listening 23rd June 2007, 06:03 AM

Replies: 63

Chinesepod.com-Does it really work?

Views: 10,684

Posted By koreth


Re: Chinesepod.com-Does it really work?

"Intermediate" and "advanced" are arbitrary labels by definition, though. Each curriculum defines
them differently, depending on what its particular emphasis and pace is. Even universities don't...



Forum: Speaking and Listening 20th June 2007, 12:50 AM

Replies: 63

Chinesepod.com-Does it really work?

Views: 10,684

Posted By koreth


Re: Chinesepod.com-Does it really work?

I generally agree with furyou_gaijin (I am a paid ChinesePod subscriber and consider it money well
spent) but I will play devil's advocate for a moment and say that not all teaching resources are...



Forum: Speaking and Listening 11th June 2007, 05:06 AM

Replies: 63

Chinesepod.com-Does it really work?

Views: 10,684

Posted By koreth


Re: Chinesepod.com-Does it really work?

But if you throw a 100% Mandarin program at a beginner, they won't understand any of it, yes? If
someone can understand an entire program with no English, is "beginner" really an appropriate...



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Pnyin - Pimsleur Cantonese -

> Learning Chinese > Non-Mandarin Chinese
Pimsleur Cantonese
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Page 1 of 3 1 23 >






flameproof -

Did anyone here do the Pimsleur Cantonese? I did some of it. But with only 30 lessons it's WAY too
little. 90 lessons as with Mandarin would be a good start.

Maybe we should do a wiki style project! Write down a transscript of each Mandarin lesson, and
then do a voice recording with some native speakers. So basically do our own Pimsleur.

Those interested in SHnese could do the same too.



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pookie -

That's a great idea if we could find poeople willing to do the transcript - a big project. I found
the same with Pimsleurs Korean. Only lessons 1 - 30. I'm on lesson 87 with Mandarin and would love
the same detail for the Korean.

I'm being a bit adventurous really. I'm doing Pimsleurs Mandarin, Japanese, Korean, and Cantonese
all at the same time. Scientifically speaking this should be detrimental to my learning but so far
it's working ok. It's about 3 hours per day if you include the pauses but is an effective way to
learn for me. Mandarin is my dominant second language so sometimes I answer Japanese questions in
mandarin automatically by accident.

I'm finding Japanese the hardest, Korean the most interesting (maybe because this is newest for
me), and Cantonese the least interesting. As I would like to live in all four regions I have all
the motivation i need.

Anyone else tried concurrent multiple pimsleur learning?










skylee -

Commuting for 2 hours twice a day? From where to where?










flameproof -



Quote:

Pimsleur Cantonese is junk ->

I think their system is good. You can do it while driving, or whatever. But 30 lessons is not
eneugh. 90, as in Mandarin, is a good jumpstart for further studies. I really like that there is
no book. The Yale writing is really hard to understand and one is bound to pronounce words wrong.



Quote:

my releatives who laughed at my ROBOTIC innoations.

People may speak bad English to me, but I never recall laughing at one. I always have respect for
people who speak another language. Specially with Chinese, they usually don't have the 'don't
care' approach and are very afraid of errors.

BTW, I recall one error in the Pimsleur course. Somewhere when they talked about open/close it
said "mun' had no literal meaning, but actually means 'door'.










skylee -

Wollongong = 臥龍崗, nice name.










mikeedward -

I really think highly of the Pimsleur courses as an introduction to a language. It is just an
introduction though, even if you go through all 90 lessons in the Mandarin course. I don't think
anyone has to worry about sounding like a robot afterwards though. If you're studying 10 hours a
day, you could do all 90 lessons in about 10 days, allowing an hour per 30 minute lesson. Not bad
for 500 words. But I think they recommend 1 lesson per day, which gives you lots of time to use
other learning resources such as books, videos, software, etc, while letting the Pimsleur recall
method sink in. If you get nothing else out of Pimsleur except solid pronunciation with correct
tones, it's still worth it. It isn't really a vocabulary building tool, so hopefully no one gets
hung up on how many words they learned. Pimsleur really helps build a solid foundation in your
language of study. Increasing your vocabulary can come later after that foundation has been built.

Mike










gato -



Quote:

If you're studying 10 hours a day, you could do all 90 lessons in about 10 days, allowing an hour
per 30 minute lesson. Not bad for 500 words.

Learning only 500 words in 100 hours of study? That sounds highly inefficient to me, even if you
are studying the notoriously difficult Chinese. Can you carry a conversation after learning these
500 words?










mikeedward -

I'm saying learning 500 words in 10 days isn't bad... especially the first 500 words you learn in
a new language. Anyways, I was trying to say Pimsleur isn't for learning vocab, but for building a
solid foundation in a language.










rose~ -

I am using Pimsleur at the moment. I find it OK, but I would be happy for it to move a little
faster. Also, it makes me chuckle a bit as it is tailored to the American male...

e.g., an actualy sentence was along the lines of:

Quote:

"You are sitting in a restaurant with a Chinese woman. Ask her if she would like to come to your
place."




What is a better alternative to Pimsleur?










mikeedward -

Wannabeafreak, you mentioned in another thread that you did each Pimsleur lesson 6 times. I
totally agree with you that that was a complete waste of time.












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Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: wannabeafreak

Forum: Speaking and Listening 2nd December 2006, 03:35 PM

Replies: 71

Steve Kaufmann - How good is he?

Views: 9,086

Posted By wannabeafreak


I don't think that's fair. I recorded myself...

I don't think that's fair.

I recorded myself speaking English and I took long pauses while trying to think of what to say
next too.

I would be quite cut if someone told me my English fluency was...



Forum: Speaking and Listening 1st December 2006, 03:18 PM

Replies: 71

Steve Kaufmann - How good is he?

Views: 9,086

Posted By wannabeafreak


Steve Kaufmann - How good is he?

As I have no mandarin skills, I'm wondering if someone can comment on Steve Kaufmann's Mandarin
speaking ability:

1) Accent
2) Fluency
3)...



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Chinese Speaking - Warning: Cheated in China AGAIN HELP!!!!!! -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China
Warning: Cheated in China AGAIN HELP!!!!!!
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ask_weasal -

I don't know if you guys know this but there is a trend going around now that if a Chinese dude
buys a car that is foriegn in order not to pay the tax he gathers a foriegner passport for a
couple of days and in exchange the foriegner is supposed to get like 7,000-10,000 yuan. Don't fall
for it. I did and I got screwed big time. The middle man was supposed to be a good friend of mine
from America who lives in Shenyang. Two weeks later I got my passport back with the seaming ripped
from the middle and taped back together again. It is altered and tattered and I don't know what to
do. What I think they did is got what they wanted and decided not to give me my cut. Chinese
business men huh? Can't be trusted. But I am so stupid for being so naive, but I needed that
money; the school I'm working for pays me 3000 yuan a month. It's next to nothing!!! I want to
retaliate and I want to get them in trouble for what they did to me. I don't want them using my
information to get what they want. Any suggestions fellow foriegners? I hate being cheated over
here. Everyday my opinion of China just drops like 5 points. Where are the honest people(including
foriegners)? HELP!!!!!!!!

regards,
Randall Fields



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roddy -



Quote:

Any suggestions fellow foriegners?

I find it hard to believe that anyone would be this daft, but that's nothing new. Go and tell the
consulate now (there's a US consulate in Shenyang, yes?).

How did they alter it? Draw a moustache on your photograph?










imron -

Yeah this scheme's doing the rounds where I live at the moment too, and if something sounds too
good to be true, it probably is.

What I find slightly ironic is that you ask where all the honest people are, yet do so after
personally taking part in a scheme with dubious honesty/legality surrounding it. After all, if the
scheme had worked out, it's unlikely you would have been complaining about the dishonesty of it.
So I guess the answer to your question is, they, like you are just out there chasing the money
(sorry for the brutal honesty there).

Anyway, I don't imagine the police will be of much help in this matter, but perhaps you can report
what happened to your embassy, and perhaps even get your previous passport cancelled and reissued
with a new one. All of which is a pain, but at least doing so may prompt the embassy to issue a
warning to people travelling to/working in China not to get involved in this sort of scheme.










geraldc -

I wouldn't report it to the Chinese authorities as basically you've helped someone commit tax
evasion, and you're more likely to get in trouble than they are.

I would go to the embassy and get a new passport though, you're probably better off reporting that
your current passport went missing and then reappeared in its current state, rather than
explaining how you basically hired it out for 2 weeks and then got ripped off.

You haven't lost any money, so just chalk it up to experience and move on.










gougou -

Whenever I have to hand over my passport in a hotel, I start praying; I'd never dream of giving it
to somebody for two weeks to use as they see fit

Is your friend from America American? If so, why didn't he use his own passport? There should have
been plenty of alarm bells!



Quote:

Chinese business men huh? Can't be trusted.

While that is true for every country, I also am much more wary with Chinese people then I would be
with Germans (for example). But contrary to you, I don't hold it against them. If I get screwed, I
believe I have nobody to blame but myself, for being too naive.

Consider it a valuable experience: it will teach you to become less naive, yet more cunning.










imron -



Quote:

you're probably better off reporting that your current passport went missing and then reappeared
in its current state,

If you're going to say your passport went missing, I imagine it might be better to leave out the
whole reappearing part. Just leave it as missing. Otherwise it might prompt them to look more
closely into the reason it disappeared. If you say it's missing, it's not like they're going to
come and check your apartment for it.










got_no_jaffas -

you have to put it down to a learning experience. it usually happens when we are desperate, either
for money or for other pleasures. i just read a huge thread on another forum about singaporeans
getting conned in china which saved my ass a few times, and singaporeans are not naive to this
kind of activity.

sometimes you take risks & it works out fine, sometimes you get burnt. you're not alone.










gougou -



Quote:

i just read a huge thread on another forum about singaporeans getting conned in china which saved
my ass a few times

Do you still have the link? Maybe you could save some other people's asses too.










aeon -

You got cheated because you could be, and more to the point deserved to be. You loaned someone
your passport in order to make a quick illegal buck. Then you didn't get paid. Boo hoo...

Who're you going to complain to? No-one. What you did was illegal, so you have no legal way to get
your money. Short of hiring a bunch of goons and going over there to beat it out of them, you are
out of luck. PT Barnum was sooo right, and the same thing would happen in any country... Come back
and ask for sympathy when you actually deserve it!

In the meantime, report your passport stolen. Get the old one cancelled and destroy it and try and
be a bit more honest yourself next time.










mlomker -

You work for only 3k/month? I wonder what kind of gig that is. I've seen a couple of the Beijing
universities offer numbers that laughable but I didn't think anybody actually took the jobs (who
wasn't wealthy and just there for the experience). 5-6k jobs seem plentiful all over the country
as long as you're qualified.












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Search took 0.02 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: Lawrence

Forum: Speaking and Listening 13th May 2007, 11:17 PM

Replies: 77

which chinese dialect(s) do you like most?

Views: 8,451

Posted By Lawrence


Re: which chinese dialect(s) do you like most?

Like someone else said earlier, I'm actually quite surprised that people think Cantonese is
pleasant to the ears. I've always made the analogy of Mandarin and Cantonese to French and German.
Mandarin...



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Pnyin - Taiwan United States and China and how I almost got killed - Page 2 -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China > Teaching English in
China
Taiwan United States and China and how I almost got killed
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Ian_Lee -

If you want to start a lively debate among the students, you shouldn't take a stand first but just
be the faciliator.

Moreover, the stand that you take is even more deviated from what US government stands for --
technically Taiwan is a part of China.

Third, the stand that you take is even deviated from what Taiwan stands -- which now is embroiled
in the controversy on the "One China Principle" between the adminstrative and the legislative
branches.

So what the students perceive from you is that on this issue, you are an "extremist".

And a teacher shouldn't be an extremist.



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adrianlondon -

a teacher shouldn't be an extremist

But pupils shouldn't start to cry when they hear a predictable viewpoint.

Most people I spoke with in Beijing know the true status of Taiwan (it comes up in conversation as
that's where my partner is from) and just give a wry smile when they see stuff like "Taiwan
province" in the newspapers. The Chinese government controls and applies censorship just for the
sake of it; it should realise that its population is more indifferent than they think

Even my Taiwanese partner doesn't really care.










geraldc -



Quote:

Even my Taiwanese partner doesn't really care.

But that's the thing, Taiwan has an independence movement, there's no corresponding movement in
China to give Taiwan independence.

Westerners like to think that anti Japanese feelings, and the Taiwan issue are just fuelled by
Communist propaganda, but people really do feel that strongly. There are overseas Chinese who feel
just as strongly about those issues, and they haven't been exposed to the government line.










Ian_Lee -

Pupils cry on various reasons. And I guess they are most likely Middle or High School kids who are
very emotional. They may cry after watching soap opera.

IMO teachers should not talk politics (not history) with Middle or High School students. Because
most likely the teachers have already taken a stand on the issue and the information (also likely
biased) that he acquires is more than what those pupils have got.

If anyone wants to talk politics, he should discuss with a college student or an adult.










ask_weasal -

Listen....
This is an oral English language class. Our goal is to teach them how to speak but most of the
time if you are to assist in the English language you have to give them some kind of motivation.
My school gives me a 200 page small black and white oral English book that seems like its about 20
years old with that ol' A and B dialougue.....The students despise this and there was many a times
where I have tried to teach them out of this book with no avail. If I want to get any copies of
something I have to pay for it out of my own pocket. What devices are we left with?
A board..
An Eraser..
And intellectual stimuli..
I've always noticed that foriegners learn curse, words of feeling and argument words very quickly.
I've always thought that when you learn how to argue in a language it is the quickest way to learn
the language.
In this class on Taiwan I didn't take sides. I don't care that Taiwan should be independent and I
also don't care that Taiwan should be apart of China and that's how most Americans feel. My point
was that this is not a problem that ordinary people should toil over or catch feelings over
because nothing will be gained in the long run. Of course the problem with Japan is a People and
Gorvernment problem.

In the opinon of the students, the students believe that Americans like myself agree that Taiwan
should be independant when most don't care. I said what i said because I was playing devil's
advocate and it back-fired. I am supposed to be a cultural expert and in my culture thats how we
learn sometimes by arguing constructively. I do agree that perhaps I was wrong in this approach. I
never considered my self a professional teacher this is simply trial and error over here in China.
I refuse to call myself a teacher....on the certificate we are called Foriegn Experts(which I am
not either). Those of us who think we are foriegn teachers lets not fool ourselves because we will
be quickly reminded that we are not when we head back to or respective countries. Now if you want
to say Randall...you should be teaching them how to speak....most of them will fall asleep.....you
know what most students want to hear and talk about....girlfriends/handsome people/jokes/and how
great China is. I mean thats basically the limitations of our topics. Movies...ha my school
doesn't even have these type of facilities....History...History is politics so history is bad. So
i guess I'll stick to Tom Cruise for now on. I am absolutely going nuts because I am unable to
speak a smigit of something intellectual because it always floats into that topic of politics.
Well i had fun with it that day and I learned a lot.

Randall










ask_weasal -

THEY ARE UNIVERSITY STUDENTS. Do you think I am that stupid to discuss it with a middle school
student? Come on man!!!










Ian_Lee -

Ask_weasal:

I apologize because I was misled by adrianlondon when she mentioned that the pupils were crying.

Of course, I have no objection against you discussing politics with college students (but I also
agree with another poster that classroom is not the proper arena).

I guess that some students cried because most likely they could not express their ideas thoroughly
in the debate owing to their limited English proficiency. Maybe you should try talking with them
in Mandarin on this subject.










roddy -

Playing devil's advocate about Taiwan in a college class is only marginally less daft than doing
so in a middle school class. There are any number of topics actually relevant to student's lives
(one child policy, the job market, rules on dating / relationships for college students,
responsibilities towards elderly parents) where you can set up debates which will work as well as
can be expected in the kind of class you describe. Jumping in on Taiwan, even in desperation, is
not likely to succeed.

But frankly, teaching oral English to that kind of class is thankless at best. Do as much as you
can and enjoy the rest of your time here. That's about as much as you can do.










atitarev -

I had bad experiences talking with Chinese about Taiwan, they are too sensitive about. I prefer
not to talk about it any more. I think they too (Taiwanese, in their majority) also want to rejoin
China but on their terms or (probably) want to see China changed first.










wushijiao -

In my first job, I was thrown into 9 classrooms of 63 students. The Dean of the English Dept. only
gave me this useful piece of advice, "The students are shy. Get them to open their mouths." The
students weren’t sorted by ability, so some were close to fluent, while others had no
communicative skills whatsoever. We had no access to a copier. No DVD’s. We had to buy our own
stereos and tapes. We used the provocatively titled book Oral Workshop: Reproduction, which
prepares the kids to speak fluent 1940’s American slang. Classes were once a week, two hours
long. Hehe.

http://www.dangdang.com/product_deta...uct_id=8707922

Don’t worry Randall! You’re not alone!












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Forum: Speaking and Listening 6th March 2007, 10:13 PM

Replies: 82

How could I get better at tones?

Views: 18,328

Posted By kdavid


Re: How could I get better at tones?

A few things I've noticed in regards to tones:

1. With the exception of the CCTV news broadcasters, I find that when natives speak quickly, most
tones seem to disappear (this could also be due to...



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Forum: Reading and Writing 22nd February 2008, 10:43 AM

Replies: 8

please help me translate sentences for practice

Views: 517

Posted By studentyoung


Re: please help me translate sentences for practice

How about combine "homes and businesses" to "家业"?
家业 usually means your family’s property. 业 here means "财产 property".

Cheers!



Forum: Reading and Writing 18th February 2008, 10:14 AM

Replies: 8

please help me translate sentences for practice

Views: 517

Posted By studentyoung


Re: please help me translate sentences for practice

How about “嚴肅而沉悶”？
在狄更斯的小說《艱難時世》中，格萊恩先生是個性格嚴肅而沉悶的例子。


面對摧毀家園打擊百業的洪水，密西西比三角州的居民白鷳出非凡的堅忍。
First, “house” is “房子” and “home” is “家”.
Second, “businesses” here means “all kind of business in this area”,...



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Learn mandarin - 寫真 for photograph? -

> Learning Chinese > Grammar and Vocabulary
寫真 for photograph?
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Mark Yong -

In Japanese, 'photograph' is referred to as 寫真. Is this term also used in Chinese?
Intuitively, it seems that 寫真 is a more accurate translation of 'photograph' than 照片 or
even 相片, in the same way 傳真 is an accurate translation of 'facsimile' (i.e. "to transmit a
true image of something").



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muyongshi -

Why do think it is a better translation?? Writing has nothing to do with a photograph....

Both 照片 and 相片 make sense as it requires light on film to make a picture and 相 has to do
with appearance and looks and a photograph is...a piece of paper with someone's likeness....










skylee -



Quote:

Is this term also used in Chinese?

Yes, in the manner of fashionable loan words like 水着, 達人, etc.










Mark Yong -



Quote:

muyongshi wrote:
Why do think it is a better translation?? Writing has nothing to do with a photograph....

Colloquially speaking, you are right. The angle I am speaking from is similar to asking whether or
not 計算機 is a better translation than 電腦 for 'computer'. Technically speaking, 計算機
is more accurate, because strictly speaking, 'compute' is 計算. But colloquially and practically
speaking, a computer is essentially an 'electrical brain', i.e. 電腦.

I am just trying to establish whether in this case, semantically-speaking, the Japanese got it
more accurate than the Chinese.










zhwj -

写真 means 'likeness' (as a type of representational portraiture; check pre-photography examples
in Chinese literature); you could argue that as technology advances, 真 takes on new meanings, so
写真 should be updated to apply to the representation that is closest to the original. When
holograms become widespread, perhaps we should call them 写真, too.

Edit: There's a great book on this subject by Lydia Liu; she addresses how western ideas were
translated into Chinese phonetically, conceptually, and with Japanese as an intermediary.
Translingual Practice translated as 《跨语际实践》.










liuzhou -



Quote:

Writing has nothing to do with a photograph

Well, actually, the English word 'photograph' comes from the Greek for 'light writing.'

'graph' means 'write'.










c_redman -

It's an interesting discussion how different languages name things differently, but I don't think
you'll get a definitive answer for which is more semantically accurate.

As muyongshi stated, photographs aren't written (it is a chemical process). Thus, perhaps the
Chinese word is more semantically accurate than the English photograph. In a similar way, many
languages use the term "flying machine" instead of airplane, a vehicle which is neither an
unbounded two-dimensional shape, nor does it skim the surface of the air.










adrianlondon -



Quote:

many languages use the term "flying machine" instead of airplane

And some use aeroplane ;)










Mark Yong -



Quote:

zhwj wrote:
写真 means 'likeness' (as a type of representational portraiture; check pre-photography examples
in Chinese literature...

Yes, that is what I meant. Semantically, a 'photograph' is the capturing of the likeness of
something. 相片 is too limiting, in that it refers only to portraiture. Perhaps something like
照寫真 would be the most semantically-accurate!



Quote:

zhwj wrote:
When holograms become widespread, perhaps we should call them 写真, too.

"三維寫真", perhaps?










Mark Yong -

In some of the 閩南 Minnan dialects, 'aeroplane' is referred to as 飛船 pue-chun, rather than
飛機. Strangely, I actually find the former more semantically-accurate, since it refers
specifically to a 'flying passenger vessel', rather than just a 'flying machine'. Comments?












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