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johnnycab -

I have been a lurker here for a while, so it is apt to start with a long post or rant - whichever
suits you. But, I was compelled to post on this thread and might be breaking a bubble...

I have been attending SOAS for the last year and a half - studying Mandarin for 2 hours a week. I
know the institution generally has a very good reputation and it was one of my reasons to go
there. Sadly, I am at a loss to understand why and extremely dissapointed at the moment, because I
cannot hold a basic conversation in Mandarin due to the way we are taught i.e. speaking part
constitutes 10 minutes approx. of the lesson organised in the most haphazard fashion - mostly
focusing on breaking down your confidence rather than positive encouragement. No history of the
characters is provided - just a short clinical assessment of the tone, absolutely no writing is
done in class.

I have bought a lot of books, dictionaries and language courses, but they do not help me too much
as we follow the books recommended in some bizzare fashion - missing sections or skipping parts
that the teacher finds hard to explain or rather cannot be bothered to go into. There is no
feedback or anybody to speak to, as nobody really cares, as long as they get their money. As for
the library - yes it has some good books, but it is hard to borrow the ones that you need, as they
will always be on loan. If you reserve them, you would be lucky to keep them for 2 weeks before
somebody recalls them.

I am still continuing partly due to the fact that I have made good friends with people on the
group and might as well see the course to the end as I am not a quitter. It has nothing to do with
the appalling quality of teaching or the non-existent support you receive.

To conclude, I would say this to the OP that I am not a full-time student there, so cannot comment
on the quality of teachers for degree courses. I hope you are lucky enough to get good teachers
and enjoy your learning experience.



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Chinese Learner -

Hi,

I am about to move to Beijing soon to learn Mandarin and look for work but have only started to
teach myself Mandarin (using Fluenz, the Rutgers University chinese multimedia
site:http://chinese.rutgers.edu/index_e.htm and the book 'A Key to Chinese Speech and Writing by
Joel Bellassen' and various other resources) recently. I do speak Cantonese though because I am
half Chinese and have lived in Hong Kong for over twelve years in the past before I moved to the
UK.

To my mind, I would imagine the best thing you could do is find a personal tutor who is a native
Mandarin speaker (preferably from Beijing so they don't have a regional accent!) and do an hours
Mandarin speaking a day to practice conversation. Maybe you can find a student from Beijing who is
studying in London and then do a lesson swap. You teach him/her English for an hour a night and
then swap where then he/she teaches you Mandarin for an hour. If you did that every day for the
length of your course I am sure that will really, really help! I imagine a course like that is
really strong on teaching you to read and write, whilst not that great at teaching to speak like a
'native'....

However....

In these days of globalization and masses of people moving around the globe to look for work...

Why don't you just go directly to Beijing, Taipei or elsewhere to learn Mandarin? It doesn't make
sense to me to study Mandarin in London when you can do it in Beijing. I'm sure the money you are
going to spend studying in London will go much further in China. And also if you don't like the
universities in China because they are too traditional and 'sino-centric' in their teaching
methods then you could probably afford to get a private tutor. I'm sure your level of Chinese will
be of a much higher standard after 3-4 years studying at uni or with a tutor in China than in
London...

I might be completely wrong as I am not a linguist but I would think if you really want to learn
Chinese, then go to China.










adrianlondon -

SOAS night classes are expensive and the teachers are often (always?) not the same ones who teach
the full time classes. In other words, some will be good and some will be rubbish.

Hire a tutor and learn yourself.

I live next to SOAS but after seeing the price of their night classes got myself a tutor. I had
1.5 hours a week for 40 weeks spread over a year. So a total of around 60 hours. I got to over
half way through the old "Practical Chinese Reader Vol 2" book.

When I then went to Beijing to study (having given up with the tutoring half a year earlier, as I
had reached a plateau whereby I was forgetting as much each week as I was learning) I was tested
and placed into a class equivalent to having already studied one semester full time.










madizi -

Johnnycab, it think that you are expecting too much of 2 hours a week. When I was at 1st grade of
sinology, we had 12 hours of Chinese language a week (4 hours simplified and 4 hours traditional
characters, 2 hours conversation, 2 hours fonolab). But when we went to China after a first year,
we were just able to have basic conversation with people. And our character recognition was also
very basic. Why? Because we learned Chinese in "non-Chinese" environment. That's additional
obstacle on a way to learn Chinese quickly. Besides, I think that for people from West, Chinese is
as hard as is English for Chinese people.










johnnycab -

CL/Adrian/madizi - I totally agree with most of the things you have said in your posts.

I always knew I would get to a point where the only option would be to go to China to learn the
language - after all that is the purpose of learning the language. I am planning to go there after
this term ends - but things are not always that easy, and some of the things need to be wrapped
up, so I can be free from any commitments to spend at least 6 months there.

However, I *did* expect a little bit more from the teachers, from one of the renowned
institutions, to give me a good grounding and make me feel excited about learning the language. It
is extremely sad/dissapointing to experience disillusioned teachers and even when confronted by a
excited little puppy wanting to learn a new trick (not the best analogy but it fits my
description) they don't care whether I am getting my tones right or using the right grammatical
particles - they just want the lesson to be over...it is soul destroying!

Adrian - I am in a similar position you describe i.e. forget as much as I am learning. At present,
I am in favour of good tutors/swap/exchange students in addition to the classes - I would be
extremely grateful if any of you can recommend me someone who is patient and does not get
irritated at the slightest inclination, but who is harsh in getting me to speak - which is my
biggest problem.










adrianlondon -

Unfortunately, my tutor (who, coincidentally, taught at SOAS) left London a couple of years ago; I
don't know where he is now!










Lu -

Johnnycab, I understand your disappointment, seems even SOAS has bad teachers and you had the bad
luck to get them. At the same time, with two hours a week, in a non-Chinese environment no less, I
would not expect anyone to learn decent Chinese, ever. Except perhaps if they studied really hard
on the side with all kinds of additional material. Two hours a week is just not enough. Like
Madizi, after two years of intensive Chinese with 12 hours a week in classes, I could only just
hold a basic conversation when I came to Beijing.










madizi -

One more thing, Johnnycab. How many students is in your class?










johnnycab -

Lu - Yes, it does take a lot of effort being in a non-chinese environment for rest of the week.
However, it is not all bad - in my view I am at least learning something even if the progress is
slow - as more than year ago I had no familiarity of the language. It is just the frustration of
not having any encouragement which makes you feel excited to pick up your books or immerse
yourself fully.

madizi - the class started with 12 students, a lot of people dropped out in the first term - then
a few newcomers joined us on different terms. But, now we have settled on 6 students - which might
change in the next term. I must add that this is another area which badly orgainised, as a lot of
students who have come and gone, were not attending the classes regularly -- which is bad for the
moral of the ones who are committed.










madizi -

Well, you live in a free country and people can come and go whenever they like. But I agree with
you that this can be disturbance for others in a class.

Just 6 students? That's not a lot (comparing to 40 in my English classes, in two classes even 80).
You could learn a lot. Maybe teachers are really not capable........












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